I’m winding down my study of the eschatology of both of Paul’s epistles to the Thessalonian believers. I intended to be here in 1Thessalonians 4 & 5 last, because I wanted to both discover whether or not Paul’s epistles were about one eschatology. That is, was he speaking of the judgment of the Jewish nation in 70 AD in part of those epistles and our modern era and our future in other parts of those epistles. I believe he spoke of one persecution, one resurrection, one coming of Christ to reward the saints and to judge the evil doers, and I believe everything we read and considered pointed to one eschatology, one end of age event and that was the destruction of the Jewish nation, including its capital, Jerusalem, and its Temple. Thus, the Old Covenant came to an end in 70 AD, and at the same time the New Covenant was established with the disciples of Jesus, demonstrating that he dealt with the world only through the Church. The age of when God dealt with the world through the Jewish nation had come to an abrupt end.
For nearly 2000 years the Jews wandered throughout the nations of this world, not having a nation of their own, demonstrating that they were judged by God and endured his terrible wrath. Many Christians today, believe the forming of the Jewish nation in 1947 pointed to the beginning of a fresh hope that the coming of Christ was near. Yet, not only had the hundreds of past predictions of the coming of Christ failed, exposing the futurist doctrine as a false hope, and its perpetrators false prophets, the creation of Israel in 1947 was a march to nowhere, as far as the coming of Christ is concerned. What difference could it possibly make, if they rebuild their Temple? The Old Covenant came to an end in 70 AD. How would that force God to deal with the world through the Jews once more? Although the Lord has in the past used unbelievers to judge and discipline his people, when has he ever used a bunch of atheists, agnostics and unbelievers to do anything to promote his will for the world? There was no Moses in 1947, no Zerubbabel or Ezra. What proof exists to demonstrate that the creation of Israel in 1947 was anything more than the Jews retaking their old homeland in an effort to provide a safe haven for their people?
Notice what Paul says in 1Thessalonians chapter five with a special consideration of the pronouns:
“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I write unto you. For you know perfectly that the day of the Lord comes as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. You are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep, sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him” (1Thessalonians 5:1-10)
Notice who has knowledge of the times and who does not. The disciples of Jesus have no need to be reminded how the day of the Lord comes. Nevertheless, those upon whom the wrath of God comes, **always** need to be reminded that the coming of the Lord in the day of judgment and with wrath upon the evil doers is an event that comes like a thief, like the birth pains of a woman. In times past nearly no one had ever heeded the warnings of the men of God that judgment, the Lord’s wrath was about to come upon the disobedient children.
Notice who’s in darkness and who is in the light. Were the prophets of the Lord in times past ever in darkness, or did they know perfectly well that the time of God’s judgment was about to come? What sort of folks were **always** in darkness in that they are called the children of darkness? Wasn’t it the folks the Lord was about to judge? Who is it in the text above who has faith or trusts in Jesus? Who looks to be saved, i.e. from the coming wrath? Who had the Lord appointed to be taken by his wrath, was it the believers in Thessalonica (the children of light) or their persecutors (the children of darkness)? Who is promised eternal life—“whether we wake or sleep (die), we should live together with him!” (verse 10)?
Who has endured the wrath of God from 70 AD to this very day? Why would any believer in Jesus think that he would one day reverse his judgment and again choose the Jews (over the Church) to once again deal with the unbelieving nations? Does anyone of us really believe the Jews are believers? Why would we think the Lord would change the world through a nation of atheists, agnostics and unbelievers? Where is the precedent in the word of God for such a thing? God has not appointed us to wrath (to set us aside in favor of unbelievers) he has appointed unbelievers to bear his wrath.
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14 responses to “God Has Not Appointed Us to Wrath”
Okay, I believe now I know where the misunderstanding lay. For the past nine weeks I’ve been involved in a study involving Paul’s eschatology in his Thessalonian epistles. The coming of Jesus, the resurrection, the reward of the saints and his wrath upon his enemies (unbelievers) took place in 70 AD. Modern Christianity tells us to look for the physical coming of a 6 foot Jewish man (Jesus) to return on a physical cloud to physical Jerusalem and to a physically rebuilt Temple and sit on a physical throne in the Most Holy Place. There is absolutely no proof of such a thing in the New Covenant writings. I chose Paul’s Thessalonian epistles because this is where the false doctrine of the rapture is taken and a whole lot of other ridiculous doctrines that simply cannot be supported in the word of God.
When God judges mankind it is **always** because of violence against the poor and the week. The first century Jewish authorities not only rejected the Messiah but they hunted down Jewish believers and persecuted them from city to city. The Jewish nation was judged in 70 AD, when the Old Covenant came to an end, and the New Covenant was established before all nations (within the Roman Empire). Modern prognosticators want to make out like 1947 was something more than giving the Jews a safe haven for their people, a place where they would be able to defend themselves etc. That’s fine, but my brethren want to say that these unbelievers, agnostics and atheists were fulfilling the will of God by putting Israel back on the map, which much of modern Christianity simply assumes without a shred of evidence that that event puts Jesus’ return in our lifetime or perhaps our grandchildren’s etc. (anything to get the money flowing into their ministries instead of to the poor, which Christ said needed our support. And, yes, many Christians believe after the rapture, God will again work through the Jews. They can’t prove it with Scripture, but they claim it is so.
I’m not anti-Semetic (at least I don’t believe so). I like the fact they have a homeland, but the Old Covenant is over. They were judged in the first century AD. That covenant didn’t work due to unbelief. The Lord is now dealing with the world through the Church, true Christians wherever they may be found. God is not judging all unbelievers, they’re already judged, but the Jews were his people, and they had to be judged, i.e. for the violence they used against their weaker brethren (Jewish believers), and as Jesus claimed he would remove their authority and gave it to a ‘nation’ bearing the fruits.
I don’t know if this makes sense to you, if not, please point out where I’ve been unclear, and I’ll try to reword my reply.
Eddy, Christians make up nonsense like your claims that somehow this god was doing something in 70 AD, and we have no evidence of that at all. Paul makes up nonsense just like Christians do now. There is nothing in the bible or any other source that says how tall JC was and again Christians can’t agree on what is literal, metaphor, etc in their bible, so your physical cloud just just more made up silliness. Your declaration of “modern Christianity” is just one more theist making baseless claims that only his version is the right one, and you have no more evidence than those you attack.
Yep, you call one “doctrine” false and another Christian calls your “doctrines” false. Non-chrisitans aren’t impressed children who can’t agree.
This god doesn’t judge anything, being imaginary. Chrisians like you want to point to whatever event suits your fancy and claim that your god is behind it.
Yep, you are as anti-Semite/Jew as any Christian with your lies about how you and only you have the “right” messiah, and have no evidence for that at all. Your messiah fails to fulfill the prophecies. Like so many Christians you need the Jews to be around to be destroyed for your little sadistic fantasies.
Your nonsense is no more true that their nonsense. Just theists who desperately need to pretend some god agrees with them and only them. There are no TrueChrisitans™, just people who want to pretend they are.
So, you sit in your seat and judge all, and if a judge, you know what the truth is. Good for you.
I have judged because I strictly adhere to what is written. No man (believer or unbeliever) is able to show there is a rapture. I have declared it unbiblical. How have I erred in judgment if it cannot be found in the Bible. Now if you can prove the Bible is in error, then, of course, I am in error. But if not, how am I in error?
I judge modern Christianity, because they look for a coming Messiah to solve all their problems, yet it can be shown that all the New Covenant writers looked for the Messiah to return in the first century. Once again, if you can prove the Bible wrong, I am wrong, but I have chosen to believe the New Covenant writers were correct, Christ came and judged the Jews in the first century AD. Were they judged? They lived without a homeland for nearly 2000 years, if there is a God, then they were judged. But if you are able to show there is no God, then, of course, ‘judgment’ is only a word, and the Jews simply fought a war they couldn’t win.
Nonsense is a word you use for my faith and the text of the Bible, but from what I am able to see from where I stand, it can be used of you, and your desire to sit in the judgment seat deciding what is nonsense and what it truth, and that without any ‘evidence’ that our witness is wrong. I wonder what else you declare ‘truth’ or ‘nonsense’. It must be a real kick in the head to be able to declare what is so and what isn’t, as though **you** and you alone possessed the truth.
And here we go with Eddy making strawmen aka lies since he has nothing else.
Just one more Christan who insists that his version of magical nonsense is the only right one. Yep you and every cultist has declared something true or not true in your holy books. No rapture, no god, no magic, just petty humans wanting to pretend someone magical being agrees with them and only them.
I can judge “modern Christianty” and whatever you’ve invented for yourself since you all fail.
No god and no evidence for the supposed events caused by it. I do love how each little arrogant Christian declares himself right and everyone else wrong, all using the same claims as each other.
Each Christian has that “kick in the head”, claiming to be able to declare what is so and what isn’t. “I have declared it unbiblical.” ROFL.
Just anoter reply pontificating, I see. …no evidence to support your argument, just pontificating.
No, I have presented evidence. **YOU** have not. My evidence is the testimony of 7 witnesses in the New Covenant text. A witness in any court of law is considered evidence. The fact that you don’t believe the evidence does not take away from the fact that I’ve based everything I claimed upon the witness found in the New Covenant text. As I see it you have three options:
I believe that would be a fair way to go about this. Remember, you have come to my website to ridicule me. I have not picked a fight with you. You are the aggressor, so what is you evidence, or are you simply a paper tiger?