The books of Ezra and Nehemiah hold much confusion for Biblical scholars, as far as chronology is concerned. Some conclude Ezra and Nehemiah were contemporaries, while others believe Ezra arrived in Jerusalem over 50 years after Nehemiah’s ministry. Actually, the chronology of the books is very simple, IF, and only if, one decides with Jesus’ conclusion that scripture cannot or must not be read in a manner that forces it to contradict itself (John 10:35). In other words, one must labor to find a way in which two or more passages of scripture will not contradict. If this is done successfully, one would probably hold the truth of the matter in mind. How is this so, or why must this be done? It is because names of places have changed; sometimes people are known by more than one name; indeed, worldviews change from one age to another, so how one looks at something said in the scriptures triggers a different context of understanding than the original. Therefore, if one labors to understand the original meaning of the text, vis-à-vis what it meant to the original audience, one may very well be rewarded with the truth.
Reading genealogies is so boring; isn’t that true? Yet, from time to time, depending on the context of one’s study, they are very revealing. For example, none of the names that we find written in Ezra 8:1-14 are recorded in either the Book of Ezra or the Book of Nehemiah as having assisted in the rebuilding projects of either the Temple of God or the walls surrounding Jerusalem. That should come as a surprise for anyone who believes that the Decree of Artaxerxes had anything to do with either building project, and there are Biblical scholars who believe the decree permitted the building project to continue to its conclusion. Nevertheless, if none of the folks that Artaxerxes released to rebuild the Temple or the city are found to have participated in that labor, how can anyone conclude the Decree of Artaxerxes had anything to do with the Seventy Weeks Prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27?
The labor of building the Temple began with Zerubbabel, the governor of Judah, and Joshua, the high priest. It was they and those with them who rebuilt the Altar of God on the Feast of Trumpets, immediately following their coming to Jerusalem after being released by Cyrus from their captivity in Babylon (Ezra 3:1-3), and the Seventy Weeks Prophecy begins there. Moreover, the project of rebuilding the Temple continued from the second month of the second year, after being released from Babylon (Ezra 3:8). Additionally, the text claims that, after both the leaders and the rest of the men who came out of the captivity, vis-à-vis the folks listed in the genealogy found in chapter two of the Book of Ezra, laid the foundations of the Temple, they paused to celebrate the fruit of their labor (Ezra 3:8-13). Nevertheless, after about a year or two, and after no little frustration created by the Samaritans, the labor ceased by the order of Cambyses, king of Persia (Ezra 4:1-6).
It didn’t begin again until the coming of Nehemiah, and it is reveled in his account that the building project included the rebuilding of Jerusalem’s walls (Nehemiah 4:1-7). Moreover, those who took part on this building project included the folks of the generation that was born in Judah after the children of the captivity returned to Jerusalem from Babylon, and they are listed in chapter three of the Book of Nehemiah! In each case, the name mentioned lists his father/grandfather as being one of those who returned to Jerusalem from Babylon with Zerubbabel, the governor, and Joshua, the high priest.[1] Genealogies are boring to read, but they are important to show some very important things, including the timeframe, showing when certain events occurred, and who was involved. So, let me repeat, none of the names listed in Ezra 8:1-14 who returned with Ezra in the seventh year of Artaxerxes, the king of Persia (cp. Ezra 7:7), participated in the building project at Jerusalem. What can we conclude from this point? The conclusion of the matter is that Ezra and company arrived after the building project was over. The Temple was already completed, and its dedication was celebrated a year prior to the release of Ezra (Ezra 6:15-18). Moreover, the city and its walls were also complete, and Ezra and company arrived in Jerusalem just in time (a few weeks prior), to participate in the celebration of dedicating the walls of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 12:27, 35-36).
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[1] For example, Eliashib, the officiating high priest during the days when Nehemiah was in authority over the building project at Jerusalem, helped build the wall beginning at the Sheep Gate (Nehemiah 3:1). He was the grandson of Joshua the high priest, who had come up from the captivity (Nehemiah 12:10; cp. Ezra 2:2). Meremoth built the wall near the Fish Gate (Nehemiah 3:3), and he was the son of Urijah (Nehemiah 3:4), the son of Koz (cp. Ezra 2:61), and so on.
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146 responses to “The Chief Men Who Returned with Ezra”
It is difficult to imagine having to expect violent behavior to break out at any moment. Of course, this would weigh heavily upon our demeanor. Forgive me for being so insensitive. As for your research into treating type II diabetes, thank you. I’ll consider it further. I have type II diabetes.
Interesting, but keep in mind that different worldviews should lead us to expect different conclusions on the text. You’ll probably want to throw up your hands in disgust when I publish my understanding on Genesis beginning next year or late this year. That is, you will if you are still reading my posts, and if I should live so long to continue doing these things. I don’t see much truth in these commentaries you are impressed with, but that’s what makes me a goyim and you a Jew. 😊
Interesting! It is not often I discuss the scriptures with someone so arrogant as you, but that’s my take. Perhaps I’m being arrogant judging your honesty. God knows.
Then why not keep Egyptian hieroglyphics. Being a highly educated man in Egyptian hierarchy, he would know this method of recording secret matters. Yet, he used and perhaps even developed an alphabet that was simple for all Jews to understand. Originally, of course, the Levites weren’t so prominent. It was the firstborn of all families in all the 12 tribes. Levi’s prominence came into play only after the ‘golden calf’ incident, and then not right away, but when Israel was numbered.
I stand corrected. You are NOT the people of the book. Sorry!
It’s probably an exaggeration, but it seems that there is as much ‘kabbalah’ as there are rabbis in Judaism. Something similar to the denominations of Christianity. I mourn over our divisions, but you seem proud of yours. Do I hear a “Whooooooooooooooooooop!”?
Yet, your common law decisions, if not based upon the truth of God’s word, couldn’t be just, at least not true justice. Bigots can operate on the same rule, but their rules are based upon partial truths or complete falsehoods.
I’ll offer you two. I don’t want to be caught up in a debate on this too.
The first is on the six days of creation. The first day goes toward the third then it is repeated with the fourth going toward the sixth. Genesis 1:2-5
• “first day” = darkness and light/night and day
• “second day” = waters/division between them
• “third day” = Earth/fruits
Now the theme is repeated in the next three days
• “fourth day” = day and night/Sun and Moon
• “fifth day” = waters/life from them
• “sixth day = Earth/life from it
I’ll draw the second example from chapter 3 of Genesis. In this example the picture is slightly different. Genesis 3:1 begins with truth and goes inward towards corruption and judgment in verse-14. Verse-15 is salvation and it takes us from judgment back out to truth in verse 24.
• Genesis 3:1-5 = the lie that corrupts and ends in death
• Genesis 3:6 = the Tree of Knowledge/eating it
• Genesis 3:7 = effect upon the man and the woman
• Genesis 3:7 = human provision/aprons
• Genesis 3:8-12 = the Lord’s inquiry of the man
• Genesis 3:13 = the Lord’s inquiry of the woman
• Genesis 3:14 = the Lord’s judgment upon the serpent
Now we return from rebellion/death beginning with salvation back to truth:
• Genesis 3:15 = the promised Seed
• Genesis 3:16 = the Lord’s sentence upon the woman
• Genesis 3:17-19 = the Lord’s sentence upon the man
• Genesis 3:20 = the effect upon the man and the woman
• Genesis 3:21 = diving provision/coats of skin
• Genesis 3:22-23 = Tree of Life/expulsion from it
• Genesis 3:24 = the truth of Life/the Tree of Life is preserved
I don’t know how you can refute this, but I realize you must try. I would be interested in how that would be done from your worldview.
As I mentioned previously, these finer points that concern the makeup of scripture usually cannot be seen by the common folk, but they cannot be hidden from folks like yourself who are educated and shown how to find them. So, I see no problem about dividing the word of God so the common folk are able to study and remember it. No real harm is done to the text in doing this, because those who can appreciate these idiosyncrasies can find them no matter what folks like the goyim do.
Yet, the building of the Tabernacle and the makeup of the priests’ clothing etc. are of the finest and most expensive materials, according to Torah. What would you put the Presence of God in (figuratively speaking)? …a doghouse is affordable for just about anyone. If you wished to express to the goyim how devoted you were to the Presence of God in your nation, would you put that “Presence” in a doghouse? Are cathedrals over the top? Perhaps! God is more interested in the poor and their welfare than he is in an expensive dwelling, and the Christian worldview is that God dwells in us, so cathedrals are unnecessary.
However, the ancients didn’t have this understanding. Therefore, if you were to brag about the Presence of God among you, an expensive dwelling for that “Presence” was helpful if not necessary. It was symbolic of the truth
You need to keep in mind that my understanding of the Talmud is that it is a Jewish commentary, much like Chrisian commentaries in that it represents the scholarly point of view of our respective worldviews. This means I will see things differently than you. Moreover, I don’t hold Christian commentaries in as high esteem as you hold your Talmud. Yet, I appreciate the understanding of Christian commentaries far more than I do the Talmud. So, what does that say to you of my perspective of your conclusions about whether or not there should have been a Temple, or what the importance of theology is in contrast to common law? I find our discussion interesting and informative, but I’m hardly persuaded by your arguments. Just saying.
At first the prophet, Nathan, approved of David’s desire (2Samuel 7:2-3). Afterward, the Lord spoke to Nathan, saying that David would not be the one who would build a House for God (1Chronicles 17:4), but his son would (1Chronicles 17:11-12). Instead of David building a House for God, God built one for him (1Chronicles 17:10). So, I think the Lord was pleased with David (1Kings 8:18). I do not see your understanding as true.
This is a surprise. David wanted to build a house for God. God commended him for it, yet you believe David would celebrate its destruction with you. What a conundrum!
Obviously, we disagree here. Law is law and love is love. The two are no synonyms.
That’s an interesting ‘dance’ around the question. Do you **OWN** God? You claimed you cannot love anything that you don’t own.
If an ancient Jew, who had no love for Christians, called Daniel a prophet, it seems to me that the real question at this point is: Who are the revisionists who sought to change history? …Christians or the post AD 70 Jews in light of the fulfillment of the Christian prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple, which Jesus claimed was him coming in the clouds (Matthew 26:64) just as the God of Israel had always done, when judging a nation (cp. Isaiah 19:1).
[[[ I have type II diabetes.]]] As do I. [[[Then why not keep Egyptian hieroglyphics.]]] I do not know, before my time. [[[Yet, your common law decisions, if not based upon the truth of God’s word, couldn’t be just, at least not true justice.]]] How does the T’NaCH define the term “justice”. No church authority ever even asked this most basic and fundamental question. Which defines the Torah concept of Faith.
[[[The first is on the six days of creation.]]] The Siddur/Jewish tefillah book, the 1st blessing of the 3 blessings which surround the kre’a sh’ma tefillah from which learns the rabbinic Shemone Esrei its k’vanna. K’vanna the essential quality which defines all tohor time oriented commandments. Withing the opening and closing of the 1st blessing, written תמיד מעשה בראשית \\ the continuous act of Creation. The story of the Avot, like Yaacov’s encounter with his brother Esau, who came with 400 “officers” according to Targum Uziel the top talmid of Hillel the leader of the Great Sanhedrin. The Av Book of בראשית introduces the idea of tohor time oriented commandments linked to the Continual Act of Creation ie תמיד מעשה בראשית.
[[[As I mentioned previously, these finer points that concern the makeup of scripture usually cannot be seen by the common folk, but they cannot be hidden from folks like yourself who are educated and shown how to find them. ]]] Like the saying goes: The Devil found in the details.
[[[What would you put the Presence of God in]]] Righteous judicial common law justice.
[[[You need to keep in mind that my understanding of the Talmud is that it is a Jewish commentary]]] A false assumption. The T’NaCH prophetic mussar common law. In its “image” the Talmud halachic ritual common law. Both common law legal systems stand upon פרדס the kabbalah of the Oral Torah revelation at Horev taught by Rabbi Akiva.
[[[At first the prophet, Nathan, approved of David’s desire (2Samuel 7:2-3).]]] Natan, bottom line stood on the Torah commandment not to follow or copy the ways of the Goyim. The story of Phinhas killing the head of the Tribe of Dan right in front of Moshe himself.
[[[ Law is law and love is love. The two are no synonyms.]]] Torah common law stands upon precedents. That’s how Torah legalism functions. Just that simple. Therefore name a Torah commandment which serves as a precedent by which the Torah defines the word Love. Good luck cause your God JeZeus did not know or have an answer to this question?????
[[[Do you **OWN** God?]]] False question. Correct question: Do I own the oaths sworn by the Avot within the Yatzir Tov within my heart? HaShem made the oath of the land of Canaan as an eternal inheritance of the chosen Cohen nation. What 3 separate oaths did the Avot each swear wherein HaShem swore this OATH to each of them in their turn? Goyim have never asked this question. What a disgrace. No oath No brit. Just like No Trust No Shalom. Now you see why the translations of covenant and peace simply utter bull shit.
[[[If an ancient Jew]]] Total speculation. The new testament all revisionist history. JeZeus an imaginary myth Harry Potter work of fiction written by some Roman propagandist person. Like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion a propaganda mythical story.
Greeting Mosckerr. I hope all is well for you and your family. May the God of Israel keep you in the palm of his hand. I sense a change. I may have gone too far in my previous reply, or perhaps you are growing tired of this discussion. If I went too far, I apologize. Our worldviews are both similar and different (great differences) at the same time. It isn’t an easy undertaking to discuss our faith without offending one or both of us. Please keep in mind that we aren’t doing this to convert one another. I like being informed of what I don’t know about Judaism. Not only have I gained knowledge about Judaism, but I’ve been challenged to read the Christian scriptures from a more Jewish perspective and understand subtilties that I couldn’t see otherwise.
Years ago (15-20) I used to peruse the faith debate boards on the internet. There I met a Jew who went by the handle of “Howiedds,” which I took to mean his name was Howie and he was a dentist with a degree in dental science. He was one of my favorites. We debated often and I saw Judaism in a light I had never been taught before. I also was taught by the interaction of our debates about my own faith, and how it is grounded in Jewishness of the Christian scriptures. Jews wrote them, not goyim, and I never really took that into consideration before Howie. The debate boards are no more, and Howie and I have lost touch. I know he lived in Texas, but much more than that I don’t know. Anyway, I said all this to tell you that I do appreciate the time we’ve spent together, and hope that any offense I’ve caused you could be overlooked, so that in the future, when the wound is healed, we can pick up where we leave off here. I’m not trying to win an argument here or to debate with you as to which of our faiths is the greater. I’m merely discussing my faith with a Jew who replies in his faith. Offense will come of this. That is inevitable, but I hope we can do it without purposefully insulting one another’s faith. If I’ve done that, then I did go too far and apologize and ask forgiveness,
Concerning type II diabetes, I am sorry to hear that you have it too. I’m 78 years old and soon to be 79 (November), and in recent years I’ve lost a lot of energy. All the other stuff I can live with, but the loss of energy is really difficult to take. I love working in the yard, lots of work there, as we just moved (during covid) in the spring of 2020. That first year was great, but I’ve deteriorated quiet rapidly, so that I find it difficult to spend more than an hour, sometimes two, in the yard working. So, thank you for your posting. I’ll look to see what you say there that may help me get my energy back. May HaShem bless you for this.
Other than the fact that the government keeps society from falling into chaos/anarchy, I see little love in police work, taxation, making new laws that usually benefit rich folks (business etc.). I don’t recognize “love” in law, which usually tends to condemn. There’s no mercy or forgiveness in law. Gravity will always be gravity, and gliding through a four-way stop sign at 1 mph, when no one else is at the intersection, still gets a ticket. That’s law for me. What is law to you, and how does it express love?
Okay, this, while informative in the sense that I’ve never heard this before, it is still far above me to understand it fully or how it answers to my original statement that the Hebrew scriptures are written, using the chiastic structure as a literary tool.
Well, contextually the “details” are the very things you want to preserve and say the Christians have destroyed by using chapters and verses to divide up scripture. My argument is that the “details” aren’t lost to you, because you’ve been trained to look for and find them. They are only lost to folks who don’t know their there in the first place and wouldn’t know what to do with them if they did see them. The idea is that at least these folks would be better equipped to learn what the word of God says and be able to recall a lot of it, due to scripture verses and chapters.
Touché! …but this still doesn’t explain all the scriptures that point to the Presence of God being in the Most Holy Place in the Tabernacle/Temple.
Alright, perhaps it is more than a commentary to you, a Jew, but to a goyim, like me, it is merely a commentary comprised of the combined wisdom of beloved Jewish leaders, as this pertains to understanding scripture. I realize you put it on the same plane as scripture, but I don’t. I’ve heard that some Jews put it before scripture, because it explains scripture, vis-à-vis it is the controller of it’s meaning, and, therefore, but have more authority. Of course, my worldview would deny such claims, and view the Talmud as nothing more than a Jewish commentary on the Hebrew scriptures.
We shall have to disagree here. Nathan clearly returns to tell David that, although he won’t build the Temple, his son would (Solomon or the Messiah = that up for commentary). Therefore, God approved of the “idea.” Scripture even says he did.
Really? What, then, is the greatest commandment, and how is it expressed in law? To love God with all one’s heart, soul and strength (Deuteronomy 6:5) is something that is done apart from the law, except to say it is commanded. The means of expressing this love: heart, soul and strength are not expressions of law. They have to do with the makeup of mankind.
Either you made an error in stating yourself or my question is valid. **You** said: “A man does not love that which he does not own.” My questions still stands, if Deuteronomy 6:5 is true, how do you **own** God?
Vis-à-vis your worldview. Nevertheless, you state it without proof. Saying something is true doesn’t make it so.
Have a good and safe day.
Eddie, simply not thin skinned. [[[ I don’t recognize “love” in law, which usually tends to condemn. There’s no mercy or forgiveness in law. Gravity will always be gravity, and gliding through a four-way stop sign at 1 mph, when no one else is at the intersection, still gets a ticket. That’s law for me. What is law to you, and how does it express love?]]] Why attempt 2 unknowns? KISS keep it simple stupid. Xtianity has a horrible record in both Justice and Love. The history of the church an abomination. Xtianity basically has no scholarship other than authoritarian Creeds and Dogmatism. It has produced little or no original thinking in the field of Justice. Love only exist as religious bankrupt rhetoric.
[[[ I’m 78 years old and soon to be 79 (November), and in recent years I’ve lost a lot of energy. All the other stuff I can live with, but the loss of energy is really difficult to take. I love working in the yard, lots of work there, as we just moved (during covid) in the spring of 2020. That first year was great, but I’ve deteriorated quiet rapidly, so that I find it difficult to spend more than an hour, sometimes two, in the yard working. So, thank you for your posting. I’ll look to see what you say there that may help me get my energy back.]]] Drinking a lot of water employs the kidneys to reduce blood sugar. Eating a lot of fiber and flax and raw oats etc employs the large intestines to reduce blood sugar as well.
[[[ using the chiastic structure as a literary tool.]]] Xtianity employs this alien concept. Torah common law examines the Primary/secondary relationship between tohor time oriented vs positive and negative Torah commandments. The subject of Torah common law does not interest the Church in the least. Proof that this false religion a fraud. The church has not the any scholarship in its entire history on the Torah commandment of Moshiach. It jumps to Prophetical NaCH sources straight off the bat. Utterly absurd.
The Talmud has also a Primary/Secondary relationship between the Mishna & Gemara. The church “loves” book burnings which the Nazis duplicated. Xtians have no education in Torah common law and likewise only ignorance in Talmudic common law. Yet claim expertise and a religious monopoly over the Torah Moshiach commandment. Yet when asked: Which Torah commandment defines the mitzva of Moshiach? Never in 2000+ years has the church abomination attempted to answer this question. Why? B/c the church only interested in repeating its Creed/dogmatism belief systems.
Xtian scholarship (((My argument is that the “details” aren’t lost to you, because you’ve been trained to look for and find them.))) compares to a brain surgeon who makes surgury wearing boxing gloves.
[[[but this still doesn’t explain all the scriptures that point to the Presence of God being in the Most Holy Place in the Tabernacle/Temple.]]] The Talmud instructs: The Torah speaks in the language of Man. Specifically as previously repeatedly mentioned: משל\נמשל, fable aggadic alligory/interpretation thereof. Par’o as opposed to Yosef’s interpretation of Paro’s dreams. As previously stated 1/4 of the Talmud aggadic in nature. The early Geonim scholars 600 to 950 CE specialized in making Midrashic commentaries on the Aggadic portions of the Talmud. The Book of בראשית, the 1st Book of the Written Torah entirely aggadic in nature. The gross failure of the church to teach this truth to their so-called bible believers makes sense that Church officials did not even want their “believers” to read their bibles!
[[[Alright, perhaps it is more than a commentary to you, a Jew, but to a goyim, like me, it is merely a commentary comprised of the combined wisdom of beloved Jewish leaders, as this pertains to understanding scripture. ]]] Xtianity a false deception and lie from day one till today. For over 2000 years Jews have attempted to inform Xtian that their bible just shit and their false messiah only a myth fable. All we got for our troubles burnt at the stake.
The church has always, from day 1 denied the revelation of the Oral Torah. [[[ I realize you put it on the same plane as scripture, but I don’t. ]]].
[[[Really? What, then, is the greatest commandment, and how is it expressed in law? To love God with all one’s heart, soul and strength (Deuteronomy 6:5) is something that is done apart from the law, except to say it is commanded.]]] More fraudulent gospel nonsense. The greatest commandment: the 1st Sinai Commandment. Just that simple. All Xtian bible translations rape the 1st Sinai commandment.
[[[if Deuteronomy 6:5 is true, how do you **own** God?]]] A bnai brit Jews owns the oaths sworn by the Avot whereby they cut a brit with HaShem in the Book of בראשית. The Book of שמות explicitly teaches that אלהי אברהם אלהי יצחק ואלהי יעקב – the Name of HaShem. The Avot swore a defined Torah oath by which they cut a brit with HaShem and the chosen Cohen nation likewise “owns” this oath inheritance which no Xtian or Muslim knows.
Your last response concerning Daniel you wrote “If an ancient Jew”. That’s total speculation. The Sages sealed the T’NaCH, you simply cannot name a T’NaCH source which refers to the mystic Daniel as being a prophet.
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